tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1785239703024664978.post1950333476123625336..comments2012-11-15T00:42:40.726-05:00Comments on JustAnotherFeministBlog: The Promised "Nice Guys" PostLaurenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05627259777320690651noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1785239703024664978.post-50163860381392578572012-07-16T22:52:35.436-04:002012-07-16T22:52:35.436-04:00Nice Guy syndrome is not something that happens on...Nice Guy syndrome is not something that happens only in unattractive men. In fact, I see it in many objectively attractive men. Men that I find attractive end up in what they call the "friend zone" all the time. So do women. It is a part of life and we need to learn to address this in a healthy, constructive way,Laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05627259777320690651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1785239703024664978.post-61609906636179800642012-07-16T22:45:10.252-04:002012-07-16T22:45:10.252-04:00don't go away from this thinking I'm beati...<i>don't go away from this thinking I'm beating up on heterosexual males.</i><br /><br />No, just the unattractive ones. Is that an improvement?<br /><br />Fail. Better luck in future posts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1785239703024664978.post-23890723314143781632012-07-11T10:29:08.864-04:002012-07-11T10:29:08.864-04:00John, you also made some really great points. I es...John, you also made some really great points. I especially love your input not only from the perspective of a man, but also as an educator who sees this playing out on a regular basis. <br /><br />I definitely agree with you about friendships turning into romantic relationships. That is very tricky territory and it requires some delicacy when trying to transition from a platonic relationship to a romantic one. But the most important part, as you noted, is that both parties be on board with the transition. It isn't fair to either party for one person to be enjoying a friendship while the other is resenting the first person for not loving him/her. <br /><br />Honestly, one of my best relationships transitioned smoothly and slowly from friendship into love, but the key was that we both searched the other and saw the change reflected back. And we took the steps together and we talked about it. Without communication and candid reflection, a relationship will never change.<br /><br />"I learned pretty quickly in college that this was a stupid way to live, and really unfair to my female friends and crushes." I love this! Thank you for sharing. I think it is very important that we work on socializing young people to understand the disturbing practice of resenting friends for not giving something they don't know you want.Laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05627259777320690651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1785239703024664978.post-49850522961019313982012-07-11T10:20:17.392-04:002012-07-11T10:20:17.392-04:00KP, I am so glad you also picked up on the strange...KP, I am so glad you also picked up on the strange prostitution vibe of the "Nice Guy" website. Clearly this guy did not understand the dynamics of a healthy relationship. Of course there are people who are in relationships for the money, but that is an exception, not the rule.<br /><br />I also think you're right about finding a way to make feelings known without being awkward. That is always tricky, though. Even with people we just met. Feelings are so deep and personal that it is very tempting to hide them to avoid the embarrassment when really the best thing to do is usually to come clean. The only thing that makes it easier is practice.Laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05627259777320690651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1785239703024664978.post-57028089271885524532012-07-11T09:03:35.654-04:002012-07-11T09:03:35.654-04:00Great post! This is a mindset I've seen a lot...Great post! This is a mindset I've seen a lot of, from peers and from the kids I've worked with and, as you said, while I realize hat it comes from a very understandable place of pain and rejection, it's also really obnoxious. It's frustrating to see guys who are intelligent and compassionate in other parts of their lives completely miss the disconnect between claiming you're a nice guy and only being friends with a girl as means to an end.<br /><br />One big problem, as you said, is the self-confidence thing: these guys (and me, I've certainly done this before) are afraid to say what they want, so they try to find a back door. So they start looking for situations where they're needed - reasoning that if someone needs them, they won't be able to reject them. Which is unhealthy as well as selfish, and inevitably leads to resentment when they inevitably don't get everything they want. I learned pretty quickly in college that this was a stupid way to live, and really unfair to my female friends and crushes. Sadly, that's not the case for everyone.<br /><br />Another point I liked to make to my guy friends in college whenever they complained that girls didn't like nice guys, was that they never fell for "nice girls." By that I meant that the girls they were pulling this "nice guy" routine on weren't girls with whom they had any major commonalities in personality or interests. They liked them either A) because they were good looking, B) because they had found the opportunity to be this girl's support system and liked feeling needed, or most likely C) both. That, more than anything, revealed where their actual priorities were. They weren't trying to form relationships with girls they could relate to as equals, because that would have required more confidence and more risk. They didn't want to have to work at building a relationship, they wanted a loophole. And as the commenter above noted, they wanted to live out hat Manic Pixie Dream Girl fantasy, where dating a fun, attractive girl would solve all of their problems.<br /><br />But if girls wanted to date fun, attractive guys instead of them, then those girls we bitches. Yep, real nice.<br /><br />As a final note (and I apologize if this is getting too long), I do think that romantic relationships can grow out of friendships. It's not a guarantee, and it till requires a clear statement of desires and a lot of work to switch the paradigm of the relationship, but it's possible. The thing that "nice guys" miss, however, is that for a friendship to become something more, it requires mutual interest/attraction. The other person doesn't just suddenly realize they want to date you because you're so nice to them. When there's mutual interest you can sense it and, in my experience, it becomes part of the subtext of the relationship, until someone takes the initiative to make it explicit. And if you aren't feeling that interest coming from the other person, then you either need to make the decision to take the risk and ask them out, or admit that maybe this isn't the best match and move on. It'll save everyone in your social circle, including yourself, a lot of headaches.<br /><br />Now, we just need to start figuring out how to socialize guys to want to do this from the start...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14724750407942120873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1785239703024664978.post-25562718380070264662012-07-11T01:46:41.345-04:002012-07-11T01:46:41.345-04:00I love that you posted an xkcd comic. That is awes...I love that you posted an xkcd comic. That is awesome.<br /><br />After reading a few of the articles that you gave me for homework I decided I would point out a few things I have learned. Number one would be that the "nice guy" cannot simply assume that his lady friend knows that he wants to get in her pants. He should let it be known. Speaking from past experience I believe he doesn't want to come out and say something like that because he will sound like a creep. So "nice guys" need to find a nice way to let that be known.<br /><br />Number two, the Wired article made a good point. The last paragraph talks about self-confidence. It states that the "nice guy" wants to be Someone's Boyfriend as if that will solve all of his problems. Instead of trying to be this "nice guy" I think they should just be themselves.<br /><br />I also stopped by the creepy "Nice Guy" link that you provided. I didn't read all of it but one thing caught my eye.<br /><br />"North American chicks are living examples of bait-and-switch fraud-- They try to convince you that you're getting a premium product but three days after you bring her home, a screw suddenly pops-loose and she starts to give-off a high-pitched snarl. And the only way to make this nonstop grating go-away is through constant maintenance. It's high-priced pussy, yet it's still not quite worth it."<br /><br />That last sentence is the prime example of how ignorant these "nice guys" are. He compares dating (or whatever he is doing or trying to do with girls) to prostitution. I don't know if he was speaking figuratively or literally. Either way all of his effort is not worth his reward. His effort being his niceness and the reward being sex.<br /><br />The other thing that pissed me off about that guy was how he spoke of money. One of his lines said "Their demands to be continuously pampered and showered with money." He is obviously not trying to get with the right type of girl if all she wants is money. I think that he just thinks that is what women want. When all actuality there is a lot that has to be put into a relationship. As Lauren and others from the linked articles have said: You can't just be nice and expect to get laid.Kory Petersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800053347505588073noreply@blogger.com